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By Herring (Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 06:44:50 AM EST) (all tags)
Herring Genuine Advantage has discovered unlicensed stuff on your PC.


Forgot to mention rugby yesterday. Excellent game. England appeared to actually play well. And it was new guys making the moves - which is cheering. Still fucked for the world cup though.

Does anyone really use tablet PCs? I have a potential application. Needs a bigger screen than a Windows Mobile type device.

I was convinced that the cigarette thing was supposed to get better after 3 weeks, not worse. Actually, I just think it's my fucking annoying co-workers. I must take at least one day shirking from home this week.

So, they've replaced Elgar on the £20 with Adam Smith. I've not read him but apparently a favourite of free marketeers. Somebody should try a free market economy one day - although I'm not sure it's practical.

Back to doing Use Cases. I feel dirty. And bored.

< A walk down memory lane | BBC White season: 'Rivers of Blood' >
Alert | 47 comments (47 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
wipo by Merekat (4.00 / 1) #1 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 06:50:53 AM EST
Undo the thatcherite obsession with owning your own home and reform the rental sector to the point where it is possible or even desirable not to have to buy in order to have safety, comfort and security in your own home.



An Englishman's home is by Herring (2.00 / 0) #14 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:13:10 AM EST
£640,000

I don't think you'll easily rid the UK of that obsession. Because a house is seen as an investment (despite the fact that 2/3rds or more of the mortgage payments are interest) as well a place to live, people will always be keen on buying.

The thing is, I don't really see how house prices can keep increasing so much faster than earnings. What the fuck is going on? Who is buying them? How?

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

can be worse by Merekat (2.00 / 0) #15 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:16:27 AM EST
I believe in Japan, mortgages can span generations.

[ Parent ]

I have heard that by Herring (2.00 / 0) #17 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:25:05 AM EST
And if, with a classic 25 year repayment mortgage you end up paying back about 3x the loan amount, what must it be on a 100 year mortgage? Sadly, I am too idle to do the maths.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

Bah, that's nothing by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #44 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 10:58:14 PM EST
We Americans have pioneered the "interest only" mortgage and I hear tell that certain loan outfits will give you loans where the payment is less than the interest.
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ウセーバラケダ
[ Parent ]

Belgium too, I think by Cloaked User (2.00 / 0) #24 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 09:20:56 AM EST
The project team I was on a few years ago was taken out to lunch by the client to celebrate the successful launch of the site. According to one of them, mortgages in Belgium¹ are generally taken out over 50 or 75 years, with the expectation that your children are the ones to finish paying it off. He seemed to consider it to be perfectly normal and sensible.

1 I think it was Belgium, but I could be wrong


--
This is not a psychotic episode. It is a cleansing moment of clarity.
[ Parent ]

I agree with the Merekat by Dr H0ffm4n (2.00 / 0) #30 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 10:22:04 AM EST
Is house price inflation really a problem that needs solving?

[ Parent ]

WIPO by Vulch (4.00 / 1) #2 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 06:53:40 AM EST

Base council tax on the last sale price of the house for owner occupiers, or an average of nearby equivalent sales for rented. Your granny who has lived in the same house for fifty years is paying 50p a month because they paid 350 for the house, the flash git with the beemer who moves every 18 months is paying nearer a grand on his 400K Wimpey box.



Not anymore by Herring (2.00 / 0) #5 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 07:07:31 AM EST
Under the council tax system, they just drive down the road an put all the houses that look the same in the same band. This suits us as you can't see the extension and the conservatory from the front. It might not suit the old bloke next door (who has "Lived here since 1935 you know").

What I resent a bit is that someone with a £12m mansion is probably only paying £20 a month more than I am.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

Three weeks is the worst by R Mutt (4.00 / 2) #3 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 06:59:52 AM EST
Novelty has worn off, cravings still high.



Feeling much better now by Herring (2.00 / 0) #18 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:26:34 AM EST
Somebody came over and asked my help with a difficult problem. Feed the ego and the rest is happy.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

Adam Smith by gpig (2.00 / 0) #4 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 07:05:14 AM EST
unlike some of the slavering morons who take his name in vain, was a great humanitarian and philanthropist. He observed that people act in their own interest, he didn't advocate that this should be enshrined in law.

I don't even know what the definition of a totally free market is -- how far do you take it? The only completely 'free' situation is one where the government ceases to exist, but paradoxically I think this would make companies more powerful (and probably more like governments in the things they try to do).
---
(,   ,') -- eep
"This option is deprecated, as it is conceptually flawed." -- man psql


Does it mean no government by Herring (2.00 / 0) #6 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 07:16:09 AM EST
Or merely a level playing field? In Europe and the US, markets are hideously distorted by subsidies and trade barriers.

Locally, road transport pays duty on fuel but air transport doesn't. The government health service has to bear the cost of training, but the private companies don't. It's not a level playing field.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

'Level playing field' by gpig (4.00 / 2) #7 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 07:32:02 AM EST
is a bit of a false concept.

To take a health example: if we had a US-style health system and companies had to pay for healthcare, small companies would lose out because larger ones would be able to negotiate bulk deals and get better insurance, and therefore secure better staff. So, having an NHS is fairer for small companies. However, having the NHS is a massive (though in my view, justified) distortion of the market.

As for taxes, it's always a balance -- the level playing field doesn't exist. How do you make a 'level playing field' between rail, air, and road? You can't.

You can

  1. balance taxes so that one is cheaper than the other (current situation, not a level playing field)
  2. balance them so that they are roughly comparable in cost (definitely not a level playing field) or
  3. get rid of taxes so that the prices reflect the up-front costs (still not a level playing field as it takes no account of infrastructure and environmental costs borne by the rest of us).
You can, of course, try to get the taxes to reflect the infrastructure and environmental costs (my preferred option) but they involve a great number of intangibles and distributed costs. (This is no excuse for not trying, of course). I think this is a better-intentioned version of 1.

Maybe I'm playing a bit on the lack of definition of the phrase 'level playing field' -- do you have one?

Anyway that was an incoherent and ill-formed rant, I must be in a mood today.
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(,   ,') -- eep
"This option is deprecated, as it is conceptually flawed." -- man psql
[ Parent ]

Today is the day for incoherent and ill-formed by Herring (4.00 / 1) #9 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 07:42:36 AM EST
I think the point I am trying to get at, deep down, is that nobody has ever tried a really free market and, I suspect, that nobody ever will.

Imagine that the government in either the US or the UK hadn't built the road network and left it to private concerns. Where do you you think the economy of such a country would be now? Sounds like a reasonable Keynesian argument to me, but IANAE.

I would certainly be interested in seeing the results of a hardcore libertarian experiment - that's one reality TV show I would watch. I wouldn't want to be in it though.

How was that for incoherent?

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

Interesting but wouldn't want to live there by gpig (4.00 / 2) #11 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 07:48:26 AM EST
is how I feel about libertarianism too ....

There's also the question of how criminal law interacts with markets. Do you regulate the sale and use of certain items where human safety is affected, e.g. slaves, firearms, heroin, cars? If not arguably you restrict some freedoms while promoting others.

Anyway let's concentrate on getting the new House of Lords selected at random from the population, that's one experiment I would be willing to tolerate -- and it would be good reality TV :)
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(,   ,') -- eep
"This option is deprecated, as it is conceptually flawed." -- man psql
[ Parent ]

In my vision of the libertatian experiment by Herring (2.00 / 0) #12 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 07:58:43 AM EST
We give them and area (say, North Dakota) and they can have all the firearms they want.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

Iraq by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #13 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:04:10 AM EST
Isn't that sort of what they tried to do with Iraq?  It's why they didn't start up the nationally owned cement factories and imported cement.  It's why they hired contractors for everything.  The government was going to be a clearing house for contracts. 

[ Parent ]

Not really a free market by Herring (2.00 / 0) #16 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:21:34 AM EST
When Iraqi builders can build a school for $50,000 but HalliBectelSatan can charge $2,000,000.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

2,000,000 dollars by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #33 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 10:47:34 AM EST

is about the size of George Soros's last round of investment in Halliburton. Small world!


-
You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]

Lies! by ad hoc (4.00 / 1) #35 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 11:02:13 AM EST
That's nothing to do with a free market by ajf (2.00 / 0) #46 Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 07:35:21 AM EST
That's "public-private partnership", which offers all the transparency benefits of a "commercial-in-confidence" contract combined with the efficiency incentives inherent in spending other people's tax money.


"I am not buying this jam, it's full of conservatives"
[ Parent ]

Tablet PCs by TurboThy (2.00 / 0) #8 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 07:39:46 AM EST
We push them for some of our customers. They're quite good for surveyor work where a PDA is too small and a laptop is unhandy. I think they're very underused in non-corporate settings, though, so depending what your idea is ...
__
You can't fix anything, you can't change anything, so just tell them that everything is A. The Fuck OK. —Rogerborg


It is actually a work project I'm looking into by Herring (2.00 / 0) #10 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 07:45:13 AM EST
so not a ground-breaking idea that's going to make me a fortune. Unless I steal the idea, code it up at home and sell it direct. Back to my employer.

I would've thought pens + browsers would work OK. I could be wrong though.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

Does it have to be portable ? by Phage (2.00 / 0) #19 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:42:39 AM EST
Could it be built into the vehicle ?

The Czar of Accounting. No Nit Too Small To Pick
[ Parent ]

Not in this case. [n/t] by Herring (2.00 / 0) #21 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:47:45 AM EST


I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

Poll by Phage (2.00 / 0) #20 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:47:34 AM EST
It's classic supply and demand. So your poll covers the best options.

Encourage development outside of the SE
Disencourage growth of buy-to-let.

Tax on the capital gain of your own home is a non-starter. Do you get e refund if the value drops ? Better to make all council taxes on a user pays basis. ie amount of garbage produced, fees for use of council services.

Wait...

What does the council do apart from rubbish collection ?

The Czar of Accounting. No Nit Too Small To Pick


Roads by hulver (2.00 / 0) #22 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:54:29 AM EST
Pavements, Lighting, Parks, Swimming pools. Some money paid to the Council gets split between fire and police.
--
smart, pretty, sane. pick two - georgeha
[ Parent ]

Itemised separately in the bill. by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #27 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 10:03:49 AM EST
And about 10% of the total.

Last bill that was actually addressed to me had water, surface drainage and sewerage charges in, but that wasn't in EnglandAndWalesia.

[ Parent ]

What does the council do? by Herring (2.00 / 0) #23 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 08:59:50 AM EST
Lots of things. For instance, when the dual carriageway at the end of my road is half-closed due to subsidence, they make it so I can't turn right out of there. They set up a diversion which means driving half way to the fucking M25 before I can legally* turn around.

Of course, they could've adjusted the roadworks and the traffic lights so people who actually live here can get through too, but that would be too much trouble.

Even better, when they had the whole lot dug up last year, they could've fixed it properly.

Actually, the council does do some other stuff as well. I just can't remember what it is.

*Fuck legally, I'm in a hurry.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

Correction to parent post by Herring (2.00 / 0) #25 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 09:29:51 AM EST
Insert the word "fuck" or variants thereof at random but frequent intervals.

On the bright side, it stops me driving to the garage for milk - it's now much, much quicker to walk.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

To sum up then by Phage (2.00 / 0) #26 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 09:36:32 AM EST
Some Fire/Police services - Charge per house or head.
Garbage - By amount (and possibly type) produced.
Roads - Weight tax on vehicles, number of vehicles, possibly kerb length.


The Czar of Accounting. No Nit Too Small To Pick
[ Parent ]

Fire/Police services by rdskutter (4.00 / 1) #28 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 10:10:25 AM EST
Charge per call out with the option of purchasing annual insurance to pay for said call outs.


"BEEN A BIT CARELESS HAVEN'T WE" - Mr Death
[ Parent ]

Fire brigade by Herring (2.00 / 0) #36 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 11:11:01 AM EST
Where that falls down is when the one house in the terrace that doesn't have insurance catches fire.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

Almost certainly by rdskutter (4.00 / 1) #47 Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 08:40:09 AM EST
You'll get the fire brigade chappies coming round door to door trying to sell the insurance.

"Very flamable these old terraces you know. Could go up in smoke before you can say 'ooopsadaisy'."


"BEEN A BIT CARELESS HAVEN'T WE" - Mr Death
[ Parent ]

WIPO by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #29 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 10:16:53 AM EST

A rip-roaringly satisying crash. History has shown that it's the only thing which tends to work.

With ciggies, I too found that it was the unquestioned excuse to leave my colleagues and go and get a breather in the outside air every two hours which I missed; that and the smokers' conspiracies and news from other departments. The smokers tended to have the best overview of what was going on, as everyone would walk outside and bitch while they smoked.


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Done.


This is very true by Herring (4.00 / 2) #31 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 10:29:47 AM EST
Yet when we tried to explain to managers at Crap Corp that we had saved them millions of pounds over the years by smoking and going to the pub, they wouldn't listen.

I have no idea what's going on here now. Management here I come.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

PS Crashes by Herring (4.00 / 1) #32 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 10:42:58 AM EST
I don't get it. Stock markets, housing markets, whatever. Loads of people going "buy, buy, it's worth more and more and more and" ... then they act all surprised when it all falls apart.

If there's any proof that capitalism is a load of bollocks then that's it. If you put a cap on house prices now (i.e. houses sold today are only allowed to increase in sale price by < RPI) then house prices would actually crash (I reckon). The only reason a 3 bed semi is now worth £300K is because people think in 5 years it'll be worth £400K. If they thought in 5 years it would only be worth £330K then it wouldn't be worth £300K.

I spent a long period of my working life trying to explain the musings of actuaries to other humans. I was never very good at it.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

Meh by Phage (2.00 / 0) #34 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 10:56:06 AM EST
Markets are irrational. Hence a free market economy may not be a good thing.

The Czar of Accounting. No Nit Too Small To Pick
[ Parent ]

I don't think markets are necessarily irrational by yicky yacky (2.00 / 0) #38 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 11:37:22 AM EST

so much as that multiple rational actors configured in the manner of the current economy is a non-linear (i.e. chaotic) system (and hence fundamentally unpredictable in anything other than the near term regardless of the accuracy of any given model). The markets themselves (if they can be said to have autonomy) and the brokers who drive them may well be acting rationally.


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Done.
[ Parent ]

Your point ? by Phage (2.00 / 0) #40 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 11:42:36 AM EST
You just said it more grandiloquently.

The Czar of Accounting. No Nit Too Small To Pick
[ Parent ]

My point by yicky yacky (2.00 / 0) #42 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 12:01:43 PM EST

is just one of anal precision: there is a difference between irrationality and non-linearity and they shouldn't be conflated. Not that I know for sure which one the markets are (possibly a mixture of both, or neither), but they are two fundamentally different hypothetical causes of the effects.

I think the problem is more one Herring touches on: To what extent do you let self-interest-maximising models run? Surely at some point an ethical, moral or practical concern may be deemed of greater significance (the right to have a roof over your head, or not starve, for example); I still don't understand how americans can sleep at night knowing what's on their southern doorstep, for example, but maybe that's just me. Of course, those who do best out of self interest-maximising models are against that idea and those who do worst are for it (in many ways it's quite rational [in the economic / game theory sense]).


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Done.
[ Parent ]

Are they acting rationally? by Herring (2.00 / 0) #41 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 11:53:11 AM EST
During the dot com boom, these are the people who were buying shares with an unmeasureable P/E ratio. OK, things may have calmed down since then but a large element of the price of any share must be "what everyone else thinks it's worth".

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

That's something which ought to be looked at very by yicky yacky (2.00 / 0) #43 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 12:46:21 PM EST

carefully, although you may find that relatively small investments at very long odds are rational in terms of long-term strategy (the cost of not being involved should x prove successful etc.). Also actions may or may not be rational based on the actions of your market competitors. That pesky feedback again.

I never claimed that investors are entirely rational; although it's important to understand that financial gain is not necessarily the only form of self-interest-maximisation; the preference comes before the quantification thereof, and concerns of rationality are applied to results and information based only on the measure of the a priori preference. When economists use the word 'rationality' in the game theoretic sense they mean something very specific and the rationality (i.e. reason) of the actor is only relevant isasmuch as it produces a preference which can be quantified. The actions with regard to this quantified preference are what make an action 'rational' or not; not whichever crazy mechanism produced the preference in the first place. If there is a hole in the current formulation of economic theory, it's that it doesn't (cannot) take the non-financial preferences into account; i.e. it by-and-large assumes everyone is playing the same game, which may well not be the case (we've all played games where one person had more fun expressing themselves within the framework [e.g. kamikaze moves] than by playing to win; e.g. some speculate that Soros did it for kicks more than for financial gain).


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[ Parent ]

People know, I think; they just by yicky yacky (4.00 / 2) #37 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 11:30:27 AM EST

believe that they can get on, clock bank and get off again before the bubble pops — but someone's got to be chairless when the music stops. I have a friend who is an economist who believes that, especially in the UK, everything is overvalued all of the time and that it's just a question of how exaggerated the difference in perceived worth and definite worth is. The problem is that there is no such thing as definite worth; measurements of value are always benchmarked against the subjective scale of what people are prepared to pay for them, and the fact that people are prepared to pay for them (and how much) itself affects how much others are prepared to pay for them in turn; lots of nasty feedback.


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Done.
[ Parent ]

If I didn't have a family by Herring (2.00 / 0) #39 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 11:40:45 AM EST
Around now, I would be quite tempted to sell and move into rented accomodation until the crash happens ...

The problem is, yeah, sure some people are making money speculating but most people just want somewhere to live. The only people who benefit from rampant house price inflation are the mortgage companies and maybe people who are in their last house they are ever going to buy. Oh, and speculators.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
[ Parent ]

coworker loves them by LinDze (2.00 / 0) #45 Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 11:47:37 PM EST
he uses the toshibas that can work like a tablet or a laptop.

-Lin Dze
Arbeit Macht Frei


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